Interactive transcript · 203 lines
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to TalkCast.
大家好，欢迎回到 TalkCast。
This is the podcast where we dive deep into the science, culture, and stories behind the headlines,
在这档播客中，我们将深入探讨头条新闻背后的科学、文化和故事，
making complex ideas easy to understand.
让复杂的观点变得通俗易懂。
I am your host, Sarah.
我是你们的主持人，莎拉。
Before we jump into today's fascinating topic, I want to share a very warm thank you to all our
在进入今天迷人的主题之前，我想向我们所有的
TalkCast members.
TalkCast 会员表达最诚挚的感谢。
Your incredible support keeps our show running and allows us to bring you deep conversations every week.
你们难以置信的支持让我们的节目得以持续运营，并 让我们每周都能为您带来深入的对话。
If you are not a member yet, please consider joining us.
如果您还不是会员，请考虑加入我们。
TalkCast needs your support to keep growing, and we appreciate every single one of you.
TalkCast 需要您的支持来持续成长，我们感激你们当中的每一个人。
Now, let us get into today's topic.
现在，让我们进入今天的主题。
Recently, a very surprising piece of news topped the social media charts.
最近，一条非常令人惊异的新闻登上了社交媒体榜单榜首。
Several university freshmen in Xi 'an shared that despite scoring incredibly high on their high
西安的几位大学新生分享说，尽管他们在高中
school graduation math exams, some as high as 132 out of 150, they ended up scoring as low as 12 out
毕业数学考试中考出了高达 150 分中的 132 分的成绩，但最终在仅三个月后的大学
of 100 on their university placement tests just three months later.
大学分级考试中仅得到了 100 分中的 12 分。
This has sparked a massive debate online.
这在网络上引发了一场热烈的讨论。
How is this even possible?
这怎么可能呢？
Did their knowledge simply vanish into thin hair over the summer break?
他们的知识难道在暑假期间就那样消失了吗？
To help us decode this cognitive mystery, we are joined today by Dr.
为了帮助我们破解这一认知之谜，我们今天邀请到了
Thomas, a renowned cognitive psychologist and author of the best -selling book, How We Learn.
托马斯博士，他是一位著名的认知心理学家，也是畅销书《我们如何学习》的作者。
Welcome to TalkCast, Thomas.
欢迎来到 TalkCast，托马斯。
Thank you, Sarah.
感谢你，莎拉。
It is wonderful to be here with you and the TalkCast audience.
非常高兴能和您以及 TalkCast 的观众在一起。
This news story is fascinating because it is a textbook example of a very common cognitive phenomenon.
这个新闻故事非常引人入胜，因为它是非常常见的认知现象的典型例子。
To put it simply, these students did not lose their intelligence.
简单来说，这些学生并没有丧失他们的智力。
They just fell victim to how the human brain processes, stores, and forgets information.
他们只是沦为了人类大脑处理、存储和遗忘信息方式的受害者。
That is comforting to hear.
听到这个让人感到欣慰。
Because honestly, when people read this news, many thought these students were just lucky during the
因为老实说，当人们看到这条新闻时，许多人认为这些学生在
main exam or that the university exam was impossibly hard.
主考中只是运气好，或者是大学的考试极其难。
But you're saying there's actually a deep scientific explanation for this sudden drop in score?
但您的意思是，对于这种分数的骤降，其实有着深刻的科学解释？
Can you explain what happens to our brains when we prepare for a major exam, like the college
您能解释一下，当我们在为重大考试做准备，比如大学
entrance exam, and then take a long break? Absolutely.
入学考试，然后休长假时，我们的大脑会发生什么吗？当然可以。
To understand this, we need to look at how we study.
要理解这一点，我们需要看看我们是如何学习的。
For major exams, students often engage in what we call MAST practice, which is the scientific term
面对重大考试，学生们经常进行我们所说的集中练习，这是科学术语
for cramming.
指死记硬背。
They study for 12 to 14 hours a day, reviewing the same formulas, solving the same types of
他们每天学习 12 到 14 个小时，复习相同的公式，解决相同类型的
problems, and keeping that information at the very front of their minds.
问题，并将这些信息保持在大脑的最前沿。
This method is incredibly effective for short -term performance.
这种方法对于短期表现来说非常有效。
It fills your short -term memory to the maximum.
它将你的短期记忆填充到极限。
But here's the catch.
但这里有个隐患。
Short -term memory is like water written on sand.
短期记忆就像写在沙子上的水。
It is highly visible right now, but it washes away very quickly if it is not converted into long
它现在非常清晰可见，但如果不转化为长
-term memory.
期记忆，它很快就会被冲刷掉。
Ah, that makes sense.
啊，这很有道理。
Water written on sand is a perfect picture for this.
写在沙上的水对此是一个完美的比喻。
But why does it wash away so quickly?
但为什么它会冲刷得这么快呢？
These students spent years studying math, not just a few days.
这些学生花了数年时间学习数学，而不仅仅是几天。
Why did a three -month summer break cause such a drastic drop from 132 points to just 12?
为什么三个月的暑假会导致从 132 分降至仅 12 分这样剧烈的下降？
That is because of two main cognitive traps.
这是因为两个主要的认知陷阱。
The first is what psychologists call the fluency illusion.
第一个是心理学家所说的流畅错觉。
I want to emphasize this term for our listeners, the fluency illusion.
我想向我们的听众强调这个术语——流畅度错觉。
This is a cognitive bias where we mistake ease of recognition for actual mastery.
这是一种认知偏差，即我们将容易识别误认为是真正掌握了。
When you look at a math formula or a vocabulary list that you've seen 50 times, your brain processes
当你看到看过了50次的数学公式或词汇表时，你的大脑会
it very smoothly.
非常顺畅地处理它。
You look at it and think, oh, this is easy.
你看这它并想，哦，这很简单。
I know this.
我知道这个。
But there is a huge difference between recognizing information when it is right in front of you and
但是，当信息就在你面前时认出它，与
retrieving that information from scratch when you're facing a blank exam paper.
面对空白试卷时从头提取该信息之间有着巨大的差异。
During the intense study period, everything felt fluent.
在高强度的学习期间，一切感觉都很顺畅。
But over the summer, when they stopped practicing, that illusion shattered.
但在夏天，当他们停止练习时，那种错觉就破灭了。
Wow, the fluency illusion.
哇，流畅度错觉。
I think almost everyone listening has experienced this.
我想几乎每位听众都经历过这一点。
It's like when you read an English article and you feel like you understand every word, but when
这就像当你读一篇英文文章时，你觉得你自己懂每一个单词，但是当
someone asks you to explain the topic in your own words, you suddenly freeze.
有人让你用自己的话解释这个主题时，你突然愣住了。
You realized you didn't actually learn it deeply.
你意识到你实际上并没有深层次地学懂它。
You just recognize the words.
你只是认出了这些单词。
Exactly, Sarah.
完全正确，莎拉。
That is a perfect comparison.
那是一个非常完美的比喻。
Recognizing a word is passive, but using it is active.
认出一个单词是被动的，但使用它则是主动的。
This brings us to the second key concept, which is the famous Ebbinghaus forgetting curve.
这就带我们来到了第二个关键概念，那就是著名的艾宾浩斯遗忘曲线。
Created by the German psychologist Hermann Ebbinghaus, this curve shows how memory declines over
这条曲线由德国心理学家赫尔曼·艾宾浩斯提出，展示了记忆如何随时间而衰退
time when there is no attempt to retain it.
当人们不试图保留它时。
His research showed that humans forget 50 % of new information within just one day and up to 80 %
他的研究表明，人类在仅一天之内就会遗忘 50% 的新信息，而在一个月内遗忘率高达 80%
within a month.
在一月之内。
Now imagine a three -month summer break where these high school graduates did absolutely no math.
现在设想一个为期三个月的暑假，在此期间这些高中毕业生完全不做数学。
They were traveling, playing games, and resting.
他们当时在旅行、玩游戏和休息。
Without any active review, their brains naturally pruned away those unused neural connections.
在没有任何主动复习的情况下，他们的大脑自然地修剪掉了那些未使用的神经连接。
The brain is highly efficient.
大脑是高度高效的。
It thinks, oh, we're not using these complex calculus formulas anymore.
它会想，哦，我们不再使用这些复杂的微积分公式了。
Let's delete them to save energy.
让我们删除它们以节省能量。
That is incredible.
那真是难以置信。
The brain actually deletes information to save energy?
大脑居然会为了节省能量而删除信息？
So if you do not use it, you really do lose it.
所以如果你不用它，你就真的会失去它。
But Thomas, does this mean the knowledge is gone forever?
但是托马斯，这是不是意味着知识就永远消失了呢？
If these students start studying math again in college, will they have to start from zero, or is
如果这些学生在大学重新开始学数学，他们必须从零开始，还是
there some trace left behind?
会留下一丝痕迹呢？
This is where we look at a very famous memory theory developed by Robert Bjork, a professor at UCLA.
这就需要我们了解加州大学洛杉矶分校教授罗伯特·比约克提出的一个非常有名的记忆理论。
He introduced the concepts of storage strength and retrieval strength.
他引入了存储强度和检索强度的概念。
These are two different measurements of memory.
这是对记忆的两种不同衡量标准。
Storage strength is how deeply a memory is rooted in your brain.
存储强度指的是一项记忆在你的大脑中扎根有多深。
Once you build high storage strength, it almost never goes away.
一旦你建立起很高的存储强度，它几乎永远不会消失。
For example, you probably never forget your childhood phone number or how to ride a bike.
例如，你可能永远不会忘记你童年时期的电话号码或如何骑自行车。
Retrieval strength, on the other hand, is how easily you can access that memory right now.
另一方面，检索强度是指你现在能多容易地调取该记忆。
It is highly unstable.
它是极不稳定的。
When these students took their college entrance exams, both their storage strength and retrieval
当这些学生参加大学入学考试时，他们的存储强度和检索
strength were very high.
强度都很高。
Over the summer, because they did not practice, their retrieval strength dropped to near zero.
经过一个暑假，因为没有练习，他们的检索强度下降到了接近于零。
So during the entry exam, they could not access the information.
所以在入学考试期间，他们无法调取这些信息。
However, their storage strength is still relatively high.
然而，他们的存储强度依然相对较高。
This means when they start relearning math in college, they will rebuild their retrieval strength
这意味着当他们在大学开始重新学习数学时，他们重建检索强度的速度
much faster than someone learning it for the first time.
会比第一次学习该知识的人快得多。
That is highly encouraging.
那非常令人鼓舞。
So the knowledge is not gone.
所以这些知识并没有消失。
It is just locked in a deep drawer, and they have lost the key for a moment.
它只是被锁在深处的抽屉里，他们一时找不到钥匙罢了。
Once they start practicing, they will find the key again.
一旦他们开始练习，就会重新找到钥匙。
This concept of storage and retrieval strength is so valuable, especially for our listeners who are
这种储存强度和提取强度的概念非常有价值，特别是对我们那些正在
learning English.
正在学习英语的听众而言。
Many of them complain that they memorize 50 words today, but by next week, they can only remember five.
他们中的许多人抱怨说，今天背了50个单词，但到下周就只能记住5个了。
They feel frustrated and think they have a bad memory.
他们感到很沮丧，认为自己的记忆力不好。
Yes, and I want to tell those English learners, you do not have a bad memory.
是的，我想告诉那些英语学习者，你们的记忆力并不差。
You are just using a study method that only builds temporary retrieval strength instead of permanent
你们只是在使用一种只能建立临时提取强度而非永久
storage strength.
储存强度的学习方法。
If you memorize 50 words in one big block of time, you are cramming.
如果你集中一大块时间背50个单词，你只是在死记硬背。
You might pass a vocabulary test the next day, but you will forget them all in a week.
你第二天可能会通过词汇测试，但一周后就会全忘光。
To turn those words into permanent storage strength, you must introduce what we call desirable difficulties.
要将这些单词转化为永久储存强度，你必须引入我们所说的理想的困难。
Desirable difficulties?
理想的困难？
That sounds like a contradiction.
这听起来像是一个矛盾。
Usually we want learning to be as easy and smooth as possible.
通常我们希望学习越简单、越顺畅越好。
Why would we want difficulties, and why are they desirable?
为什么我们要制造困难，又为什么说它们是理想的呢？
It does sound strange, doesn't it?
听起来确实很奇怪，不是吗？
But cognitive science shows that the harder your brain has to work to retrieve a memory, the more
但认知科学表明，你的大脑在提取记忆时越费劲，
that memory is strengthened.
那份记忆就越能得到强化。
Think of it like physical exercise.
可以把这想象成身体锻炼。
If you lift light weights that require zero effort, your muscles will not grow.
如果你举起毫不费力的轻型哑铃，你的肌肉就不会增长。
But if you lift a weight that is slightly heavy, a desirable difficulty, your muscles adapt and get stronger.
但如果你举起稍微有点重的东西——即一种理想的困难——你的肌肉就会适应并变得更强壮。
The same goes for the brain.
大脑也是如此。
When you make your brain struggle a little bit to recall a word or a math formula, you are sending a
当你让大脑费点劲去回想一个单词或数学公式时，你就在发送一个
powerful signal to your biology that says, this information is important.
强大的信号给你的生理机制，说明这些信息很重要。
We need to keep this.
我们需要保留这些信息。
This struggle actually builds and thickens the neural pathways.
这种挣扎过程实际上建立并加厚了神经通路。
That is a brilliant analogy.
这是一个绝妙的比喻。
No pain, no gain, but for the brain.
没有付出就没有收获，不过是对大脑而言。
So how can our listeners apply this idea of desirable difficulties to their daily learning?
那么，我们的听众该如何将“理想困难”的理念应用到日常学习中呢？
What are some practical techniques?
有哪些实用的技巧？
There are two highly effective, scientifically proven techniques that everyone should use.
有两项高效且经过科学验证的技巧，每个人都应该使用。
The first is active recall, which is also known as retrieval practice.
第一种是主动回忆，也被称为提取练习。
Instead of passively re -reading your textbook or vocabulary list, you must force your brain to
与其被动地重新阅读课本或词汇表，你必须强迫你的大脑去
retrieve the information actively.
主动提取信息。
For example, after reading a page of English text, close the book and try to write down a summary of
例如，读完一页英文文本后，合上书，试着写下你刚刚所读内容的摘要，
what you just read.
即你刚才阅读的内容。
Or use flashcards where you see the word in your native language and have to produce the English
或者使用抽认卡，当你看到母语单词时，必须凭记忆输出对应的英文
word from memory.
凭借记忆写出单词。
Do not look at the answer until you have tried your hardest to remember it.
在尽最大努力去回忆之前，不要看答案。
That moment of struggle is where the real learning happens.
那种挣扎的时刻，才是真正发生学习的地方 。
Active recall.
主动回忆。
So testing yourself is actually a form of studying, not just a way to get a grade.
所以自我测试实际上是一种学习形式，而不仅仅是为了拿到成绩。
In fact, testing yourself might be the best way to learn. Exactly.
事实上，自我测试可能是最好的学习方式。完全正确。
Testing is a powerful learning tool, not just an assessment tool.
测试是一个强大的学习工具，不仅仅是一个评估工具。
The second technique is spaced repetition.
第二种技巧是间隔重复。
Instead of studying a subject for five hours in one single day, you should space that study out into
与其在一天之内连续学习一个科目五个小时，不如将学习时间分散到
30 minutes a day over 10 days.
在10天里每天学习30分钟。
Spacing allows your brain to almost forget the information before you retrieve it again.
间隔能让你的大脑在再次检索信息之前，几乎将其遗忘。
That act of pulling the memory back from the edge of forgetting is what dramatically boosts storage strength.
将记忆从遗忘边缘拉回来的行为，能显著地增强存储强度。
There are many great spaced repetition software tools available today, like Anki, which use
如今有许多优秀的间隔重复软件工具，比如 Anki，它们使用
algorithms to show you flashcards right at the moment you are about to forget them.
算法在你即将遗忘的时刻为你展示记忆卡片。
This is incredibly useful advice.
这是极其有用的建议。
If we apply this to language learning, instead of learning 100 words in one night, it is much better
如果我们将此应用于语言学习，与其一晚背100个单词，倒不如
to learn 10 words a day, but review them after one day, then three days, then a week, and then a month.
每天学10个单词，但在一天后、三天后、一周后以及一个月后进行 复习。
This expanding schedule helps move the words from short -term retrieval strength to long -term storage strength.
这种递增的日程安排有助于将单词从短期提取强度转化为长期存储强度。
Precisely, Sarah.
完全正确，莎拉。
You have summarized it beautifully.
你总结得太棒了。
And if you combine spaced repetition with active use, such as writing a short journal entry using
如果你将间隔重复与主动使用结合起来，比如写一篇短日志，使用
those new words, or speaking them aloud in a conversation, you create multiple connections in your brain.
那些新单词，或者在对话中大声说出来，你就会在大脑中建立多重连接。
This makes the memory incredibly stable.
这会让记忆变得极其稳定。
It makes the storage strength so high that even after a three -month summer break, you will still be
它能让存储强度变得极高，以至于即使经过三个月的暑假，你依然
able to use those words easily.
能够轻松地使用那些单词。
This is so empowering because it means anyone can become a highly efficient learner.
这太给人力量了，因为这意味着任何人都能成为高效的学习者。
It is not about having a special gene or a super brain.
这并不是因为拥有特殊的基因或超级大脑。
It is simply about using the right cognitive systems.
这仅仅关乎使用正确的认知系统。
The high school students who scored 132 in math are clearly very smart, but their system was
高考数学考了132分的高中生显然非常聪明，但他们的系统是
designed for a short -term sprint.
为短期冲刺而设计的。
When they entered university, they realized they needed a system designed for a lifelong marathon.
当他们进入大学后，他们意识到需要一个为终身马拉松而设计的系统。
Well said, Sarah.
说得真好，莎拉。
Education is indeed a marathon, not a sprint.
教育确实是一场马拉松，而不是短跑。
I hope these students and all our listeners use this experience to transition from short -term
我希望这些学生和我们所有的听众能利用这次经历，从短期转变
cramming to long -term deep learning.
突击复习转变为长期深度学习。
When you change how you study, you change how you think. Dr.
当你改变学习方式时，你就改变了思考方式。托马斯博士，
Thomas, thank you so much for joining us today on TalkCast and for breaking down these complex
非常感谢您今天来到 TalkCast 节目，并为我们剖析这些复杂的
psychological concepts into such practical, life -changing advice.
心理学概念，转化为如此实用且能改变生活的建议。
It was my absolute pleasure, Sarah.
这绝对是我的荣幸，莎拉。
Happy learning to everyone out there.
祝大家学习愉快。
And that brings us to the end of today's episode of TalkCast.
这也意味着今天的 TalkCast 节目到了尾声。
Let us quickly summarize the main takeaways.
让我们快速总结一下主要收获。
First, avoid the fluency illusion.
首先，避免流畅度错觉。
Just because something looks familiar does not mean you have mastered it.
仅仅因为某些东西看起来很熟悉，并不意味着你已经掌握了它。
Second, use active recall and test yourself instead of just rereading.
其次，使用主动回忆并测试自己，而不是仅仅重复阅读。
And finally, use spaced repetition to build long -term storage strength rather than temporary
最后，使用间隔重复来建立长期存储强度，而不是暂时的
retrieval strength.
提取强度。
Now, we have an exciting open -ended question for all of you listening today.
现在，我们为今天收听的所有人准备了一个令人兴奋的开放式问题。
What is one piece of information or a skill that you crammed intensely for an exam in the past, but
有哪一项信息或技能是你过去为了考试而密集地突击复习，但
now have completely forgotten?
现在却完全忘记了的？
How did you feel when you realized it was gone?
当你意识到它已经消失时，你感觉如何？
Please write down your answers in the comment section below, or take a look at what other listeners
请在下方的评论区写下你的答案，或者看看其他听众
have written.
所写的内容。
We love reading your stories and learning from your experiences.
我们很喜欢阅读你们的故事，并从你们的经历中学习。
If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to TalkCast, share it with your friends who are
如果你喜欢今天的节目，请订阅 TalkCast，把它分享给那些正在
studying English or preparing for exams, and give us a five -star review.
学习英语或备考的朋友，并给我们一个五星好评。
Your feedback and support mean the world to us.
您的反馈和支持对我们来说至关重要。
Also, a quick reminder for our listening community.
另外，给我们的听众社区一个简短的提醒。
The full English text transcript of this episode, along with key vocabulary notes, will be published
本期节目的英文完整逐字稿以及核心词汇笔记，将发布
on our official WeChat public account, TalkCast.
在我们的官方微信公众号 TalkCast 上。
Please make sure to check it out if you want to practice your reading and listening skills together.
如果你想一起练习阅读和听力技巧，请务必关注一下。
Thank you so much for tuning in.
非常感谢您的收听。
Keep learning, stay curious, and we will see you in the next episode.
保持学习，保持好奇，我们下期节目再见。
