Interactive transcript · 214 lines
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to TalkCast Discovery, off the map, into the world.
大家好，欢迎回到TalkCast探索，远离地图，走向世界。
I am your host, William.
我是您的主持人威廉。
If you love history, culture, and the art of slow living, you are in the perfect place.
如果你热爱历史、文化和慢生活的艺术，那么你找对地方了。
Today, we are taking a journey to a city in eastern China that has inspired poets, emperors, and
今天，我们将踏上前往中国东部一座城市的旅程，几千年来它一直激发着诗人、皇帝和
artists for thousands of years.
数千年来的艺术家们的灵感。
It is a city of elegant gardens, misty canals, and a culinary tradition that is literally an art form.
这是一座拥有典雅园林、迷蒙运河和堪称艺术形式的烹饪传统之城。
I am talking about the beautiful, historic city of Yangzhou.
我说的就是美丽而历史悠久的扬州市。
There is a very famous line by the ancient Chinese poet Li Bai, written more than a thousand years
中国古代诗人李白有一句非常著名的诗句，写于一千多年前
ago, that says, In the misty month of flowers and willows in spring, go down to Yangzhou.
前，诗中说：“在春意盎然、烟花柳绿的三月，下扬州去。”
Today, we do not have to wait for spring to experience its magic.
今天，我们不必等到春天才能体验它的神奇魅力。
Joining me to explore this wonderful destination is cultural historian and travel writer Sophia.
今天与我一起探索这个绝佳目的地的是文化历史学家兼旅行作家索菲亚。
Sophia lived in Yangzhou for five years, researching its canal heritage and local lifestyle.
索菲亚在扬州生活了五年，研究这里的运河遗产和当地的生活方式。
Sophia, welcome to the show.
索菲亚，欢迎来到节目。
Thank you, William.
谢谢你，威廉。
It is an absolute pleasure to be here.
能来到这里绝对是我的荣幸。
Whenever I hear that poem by Li Bai, my heart immediately travels back to the cobblestone alleys and
每当我听到李白的那首诗，我的心就会立刻飞回那鹅卵石小巷和
peaceful waters of Yangzhou.
扬州宁静的水域。
It is one of those rare places where history does not feel like a dry textbook.
这里是极少数罕见的地方之一，历史在这里不会让人觉得像一本枯燥的教科书。
Instead, it feels alive.
相反，它让人感觉充满生机。
You can feel it in the gentle morning breeze, taste it in the delicate local dishes, and see it in
你可以在清晨柔和的微风中感受到它，在精致的当地佳肴中品味到它，并在
the way the local residents embrace every single day with a sense of peace and leisure.
当地居民以和平与悠闲的心态拥抱每一天的方式中看到它。
That is a beautiful way to put it.
这个表达方式真美。
I must ask you, Sophia, what was your very first morning in Yangzhou like?
我一定要问问你，索菲亚，你在扬州的第一个早晨是什么样的？
Can you paint a picture for our listeners of that first impression?
你能为我们的听众描绘一下当时的第一印象吗？
Oh, I remember it so clearly.
哦，我记得非常清晰。
It was a crisp autumn morning.
那是一个清爽的秋晨。
I woke up early and walked down to the old city area.
我很早就醒来了，散步走到了老城区。
The air was cool and there was this incredibly sweet, fragrant aroma in the air.
空气很凉爽，空气中弥漫着令人难以置信的甜美芳香的韵味。
Later I realized it was the sweet -scented osmanthus flowers blooming all over the city.
后来我才知道，那是盛开在全城各处的桂花。
I saw elderly local people walking slowly toward the tea houses, carrying burt cages, smiling and chatting.
我看到当地的老年人拎着鸟笼，微笑着聊着天，缓缓走向茶馆。
I sat down by a canal, watched the mist rising off the water, and had my very first cup of local
我坐在运河边，看着水面上升起的薄雾，喝下了我的第一杯当地
green tea.
绿茶。
In that moment, I realized that Yangzhou does not run on the same clock as the rest of the world.
那一刻，我意识到扬州并不与世界其他地方遵循同一个时间钟表。
It has its own, much gentler rhythm.
它有着属于自己的、更为温和柔顺的节奏。
That sounds absolutely dreamlike.
那听起来绝对像梦幻般。
Now, to understand why Yangzhou has this unique atmosphere, we have to look at its geography and history.
现在，要理解扬州为什么有这种独特的氛围，我们必须看看它的地理和历史。
The city is deeply connected to water, especially to the famous Grand Canal.
这座城市与水紧密相连，尤其是著名的京杭大运河。
For our listeners who might not know, could you explain the significance of the Grand Canal to Yangzhou? Absolutely.
对于可能还不太了解的听众，你能解释一下大运河对扬州的重要意义吗？当然可以。
You cannot understand Yangzhou without understanding the Grand Canal, or Dai Yunhe.
如果不了解大运河，你就无法真正了解扬州。
It is the longest artificial canal in the world, and Yangzhou is actually the birthplace of this
它是世界上最长之人工运河，而扬州实际上正是这项
incredible engineering marvel.
不可思议的工程奇迹的发源地。
It was first built more than 2 ,000 years ago, and later expanded during the Su Dynasty.
它最早开凿于2000多年前，后来在隋朝时期得以扩建。
Think of the Grand Canal as the ancient superhighway of China.
不妨把大运河想象成中国古代的高速公路。
It connected the rich agricultural south with the political capital in the north.
它将富庶的南方农业区与北方的政治首都连接了起来。
Because Yangzhou sat right at the intersection of the Grand Canal and the Yangtze River, it became
由于扬州正处于大运河与长江的交汇处，它成为了
the ultimate economic hub.
终极的经济枢纽。
It was the gatekeeper of trade, wealth, and culture for centuries.
几百年来，它一直是贸易、财富和文化的守护者。
So it was basically the New York or London of its time.
所以它基本上就是那个时代的纽约或伦敦。
And with all that trade and commerce passing through, a lot of wealth must have accumulated in the city.
随着所有这些贸易和商业的往来，这座城市必定积累了大量的财富。
I have read about the famous salt merchants of Yangzhou.
我曾读到过关于扬州著名的盐商的事迹。
Who were they, and how did they shape the city we see today?
他们是谁，又是如何塑造了我们今天所看到的这座城市的呢？
You are spot on, William.
威廉，你说得太准确了。
During the Ming and Qing dynasties, salt was a highly controlled and incredibly valuable commodity,
在明清时期，盐是一种受到高度管制且极其昂贵的商品，
almost like oil is today.
几乎就像今天的石油一样。
The government granted a monopoly on the salt trade to a select group of wealthy merchants based in Yangzhou.
政府将盐业贸易的垄断权授予了扬州的一小批富商。
These salt merchants became some of the richest people on earth.
这些盐商成为了世界上最富有的人群之一。
But what makes them fascinating is how they spent their money.
但真正让人感到着迷的是他们花钱的方式。
They did not just buy gold.
他们不单单是购买黄金。
They invested heavily in culture.
他们在文化方面进行了大量投资。
They built magnificent private gardens, sponsored the finest poets, calligraphers, and opera
他们修建了壮丽的私家园林，资助了顶尖的诗人、书法家和戏曲
singers, and demanded the most refined food.
演唱家，并追求最精致的美食。
Much of the elegant culture, the beautiful classical gardens, and the famous culinary traditions of
扬州许多高雅的文化、美丽的古典园林以及著名的烹饪传统，
Yangzhou exist today because of the artistic taste of these salt merchants.
之所以能留存至今，全赖这些盐商的艺术品味。
That is fascinating.
这太令人着迷了。
So they were essentially the great patrons of the arts.
所以他们本质上是伟大的艺术赞助人。
Speaking of gardens and beauty, we cannot talk about Yangzhou without mentioning its most famous
说到园林与美景，谈及扬州就不能不提及其最著名的
scenic spot, the slender West Lake, or Shoshihu.
风景名胜，瘦西湖。
Now, many people have heard of the famous West Lake in Hangzhou.
如今，许多人都听说过杭州著名的西湖。
What makes Yangzhou's slender West Lake different?
是什么让扬州的瘦西湖与众不同呢？
And why is it called slender?
又为什么称它为“瘦”西湖呢？
That is a great question.
问得好，这是个非常棒的问题。
While Hangzhou's West Lake is vast, open, and grand, Yangzhou's slender West Lake is long, narrow,
杭州的西湖辽阔、开阔且宏伟，而扬州的瘦西湖则长而狭窄、
and winding.
且曲折蜿蜒。
It looks less like a wide lake and more like a delicate, flowing ribbon of water.
它看起来不太像一片宽广的湖泊，倒更像一条精致的、流动的水上飘带。
In fact, walking along its banks feels like slowly opening a traditional Chinese scroll landscape painting.
事实上，沿岸散步感觉就像在缓缓展开一幅中国传统的长卷山水画。
As you walk, the scenery changes with every step.
当您漫步其中时，风景一步一景，不断变化。
You see weeping willows dipping their branches into the green water, elegant bridges, and artistic
你会看到垂柳将枝条垂入碧水之中，精致的拱桥以及具有艺术感
pavilions peeking through the bamboo groves.
的亭台楼阁在竹林间若隐若现。
It is designed to be intimate and poetic.
它的设计旨在营造出一种亲近而诗意的氛围。
I love that image of a landscape painting coming to life.
我喜欢山水画活灵活现地展现在眼前的那种意境。
And speaking of bridges, there is one bridge in particular that has captured the imagination of
说到桥梁，有一座特别的桥几个世纪以来一直吸引着人们的想象力，
people for centuries, the 24 Bridge, or Erxi Suqiao.
吸引了人们几个世纪，那就是二十四桥。
There is a very famous poem by Du Mu that mentions it.
杜牧有一首非常著名的诗提到了它。
What is the story behind this bridge?
这座桥背后有什么故事呢？
Ah, the 24 Bridge.
啊，二十四桥。
It is shrouded in romance and mystery.
它笼罩在浪漫与神秘之中。
The poem by Du Mu asks where the beautiful girls are teaching the flute on this moonlit night at the
杜牧的诗询问在这月光皎洁的夜晚，二十四桥上何处有佳人在吹箫
24 Bridge.
二十四桥。
Some historians believe there were actually 24 individual bridges in the city.
一些历史学家认为城里实际上曾有24座独立的桥。
Others believe it was just one single bridge where 24 beautiful court ladies played the flute.
另一些人则认为那只是一座桥，曾有24位美丽的宫廷女子在此吹箫。
Today, there is a beautiful single arch white marble bridge built to honor this legend.
如今，这里建起了一座美丽的单孔白玉拱桥，以纪念这一传说。
It has 24 steps on each side, 24 balustrades, and is exactly 24 meters long.
它两侧各有24级台阶，24根栏杆，长度恰好也是24米。
When you stand on it on a quiet evening, with the moonlight reflecting on the water, you can almost
当你在一个宁静的夜晚站在桥上，月光倒映在水面上，你几乎可以
hear the soft, distant sound of a bamboo flute playing in the wind.
听到风中传来柔和而遥远的箫声。
It is pure magic.
这真是纯粹的神奇体验。
Oh wow, the attention to detail in that reconstruction is incredible.
哇，那个重建工程对细节的关注真是不可思议。
I can almost hear the flute myself.
我自己都仿佛能听到那笛声。
Now, all this sightseeing must make a traveler hungry.
现在，这所有的观光游览一定让游客饿了。
Let us talk about one of my favorite topics, the food.
让我们来聊聊我最喜欢的话题之一：美食。
Yangzhou is the birthplace of Huayang cuisine, which is celebrated as one of the four great culinary
扬州是淮扬菜的发源地，淮扬菜被誉为四大传统菜系之一
traditions of China.
中国的传统。
Sophia, how would you describe the philosophy of Huayang cuisine?
索菲娅，你会如何描述淮扬菜的哲学理念？
Huayang cuisine is all about fresh, seasonal ingredients and preserving the natural flavors of the food.
淮扬菜讲究使用新鲜的时令食材，并保留食物的原汁原味。
It is not heavy on spices or chili.
它不重香料或辣椒。
Instead, it relies on delicate, subtle flavors.
相反，它依赖于精致而微妙的风味。
But what truly sets it apart is the incredible, almost superhuman knife skills of the chefs.
但真正让它独树一帜的是厨师们令人难以置信的、几乎超凡的刀工。
They believe that the way food is cut directly affects its taste and texture.
他们认为切食物的方式会直接影响其口感和质感。
Wait, really?
等等，真的吗？
How extreme do these knife skills get?
这些刀工究竟能有多极致？
Do you have an example?
你有例子吗？
Oh, absolutely.
哦，当然有。
The most famous example is a dish called wensi tofu, or wensi dofu.
最著名的例子是一道叫做文思豆腐的菜。
The chef takes a single block of fresh, incredibly soft and fragile tofu.
厨师取一块新鲜、极其柔软且易碎的豆腐。
Using a massive, heavy Chinese cleavler, the chef slices the tofu into thousands of individual strands.
厨师用一把大而沉重的中国切菜刀，将豆腐切成数千根独立的细丝。
Each strand is as thin as a human hair.
每根细丝都像人的头发一样细。
When they place it in a bowl of clear, rich chicken broth, the tofu strands float and spread out
当他们把它放入一碗清澈浓郁的鸡汤中时，豆腐丝会浮起并散开
like a beautiful, delicate flower, or a painting of fine silk.
就像一朵美丽精致的花，或者一幅精美丝绸的画作。
When you eat it, the tofu melts instantly on your tongue.
吃的时候，豆腐会在你的舌尖瞬间融化。
It is mind -blowing to watch, and even more incredible to taste.
看着令人震撼，尝起来更是不可思议。
That is absolutely mind -blowing.
那绝对令人震撼。
I cannot even cut a slice of bread straight, and these chefs are shredding soft tofu into hair -thin strands?
我连一片面包都切不直，而这些厨师却能把嫩豆腐切成发丝般细的丝？
That is true artistry.
那才是真正的艺术技巧。
Now, there is also a very famous local saying in Yangzhou about their daily lifestyle, pi baoxue and
现在，扬州当地还有一个关于他们日常生活方式的著名俗语，“皮包水”和
shui baoxue.
“水包水”。
Can you explain what on earth that means?
你能解释一下这到底是什么意思吗？
I love this saying.
我喜欢这句俗语。
It perfectly captures the essence of Yangzhou's slow -living philosophy.
它完美地捕捉到了扬州慢生活哲学的精髓。
Pi baoxue literally translates to, skin wraps water.
“皮包水”字面上翻译过来就是，皮包裹着水。
This refers to the morning routine of enjoying local tea and steamed buns.
这是指早晨品尝当地茶和包子的日常习惯。
You go to a traditional tea house, order a pot of local green tea, and enjoy a variety of
你去一家传统茶馆，点一壶当地绿茶，享用各种
beautifully crafted steamed buns, or baoxie.
精美制作的蒸包，也就是包子。
The most famous is the crab roe soup dumpling, called shihuang tangbao.
最著名的是蟹黄汤包，被称为蟹黄汤包。
These dumplings are filled with rich, hot broth and tasty crab meat.
这些包子里装满了浓郁滚烫的汤汁和美味的蟹肉。
The skin of the dumpling is paper -thin, wrapping the delicious liquid inside.
包子皮薄如纸，包裹着里面美味的液体。
So the skin is literally wrapping the water.
所以皮真的在包裹着水。
Ah, that makes perfect sense.
啊，那完全说得通。
And how do you actually eat one of those soup dumplings without making a complete mess?
那么你究竟该实际上怎样吃那种汤包而不弄得一团糟呢？
I imagine it can be quite tricky.
我想象这可能相当棘手。
It is definitely an art form in itself.
这绝对本身就是一种艺术形式。
The locals have a saying, first make a small window, then drink the soup.
当地人有句俗话，先开小窗，后喝汤。
You gently lift the dumpling with your chopsticks, place it on a deep spoon, and take a very small,
你轻轻地用筷子夹起包子，放在深汤匙上，咬一口非常小的、
careful bite near the top to create a little hole.
顶部小心翼翼的小口，弄出一个小洞。
Then you gently suck the rich, delicious broth out through the hole.
然后你轻轻地通过小洞吸出浓郁美味的汤汁。
Once the soup is gone, you dip the rest of the dumpling in black vinegar and ginger and eat it.
汤喝完后，把剩下的包子蘸上黑醋和姜丝吃掉。
It is an explosion of flavor.
这是风味的爆发。
But you must be patient, or you will burn your mouth.
但你必须有耐心，否则会烫到嘴。
That sounds delicious.
听起来很美味。
I am getting hungry just listening to you.
我光听你说就感觉饿了。
So that is pi bao shui, the skin wrapping the water in the morning.
所以这就是“皮包水”，早上皮包裹着水。
What about the second part of the saying, shui bao shui, or water wrapping the skin in the evening?
那句俗语的第二部分“水包皮”，也就是晚上水包裹着皮，又是怎么回事呢？
Shui bao pi, or water wrapped skin, refers to the evening routine of going to a traditional bathhouse.
“水包皮”，即水包着皮肤，是指晚上去传统澡堂的例行习惯。
Yangjou has a famous bathhouse culture that dates back centuries.
扬州拥有着可以追溯到数个世纪前的著名澡堂文化。
After a long day of work or travel, you go to a bathhouse, soak your body in a hot spring pool, and
在漫长的一天工作或旅行之后，你去到澡堂，将身体浸泡在温泉池中，并且
get a professional massage or a traditional foot pedicure.
享受专业的按摩或传统的足部修脚。
The pedicure masters of Yangjou are famous all over China for their skills.
扬州的修脚大师因其精湛的技艺而享誉全国。
So in the morning, you put water inside your body through tea and dumplings, and in the evening, you
所以早晨你通过饮茶和吃包子将水纳于体内，而到了晚上，你
put your body inside water to relax.
将身体泡入水中以放松。
It is the ultimate form of self -care and relaxation.
这是自我关爱与放松的终极形式。
What an incredible, balanced way to live.
这是多么不可思议且平衡的生活方式啊。
It sounds like the ultimate wellness routine, designed hundreds of years before modern spas even existed.
这听起来像是终极的养生例程，早在现代水疗存在的数百年前就已经设计出来了。
But Sophia, we live in a very fast -paced modern world.
但是索菲娅，我们生活在一个非常快节奏的现代世界。
How does this ancient, poetic lifestyle survive in modern -day Yangjou?
这种古老而诗意的生活方式是如何在现代扬州生存下来的呢？
Has the city changed a lot?
这座城市改变很多吗？
Like any city in China, Yangjou has modernized.
像中国的任何城市一样，扬州也已经现代化了。
You will see high -tech districts and modern high -rises.
你会看到高新技术区和现代化的高楼大厦。
But what I love about Yangjou is how fiercely protective it is of its historical soul.
但对于扬州，我所钟爱的是它对自身历史灵魂坚决的保护方式。
The local government has done a wonderful job of preserving the old city quarters.
当地政府在保护老城区方面做出了出色的工作。
For example, if you walk down Dongguan Street, which is a historic cobblestone alleyway, you can
例如，如果你走在东关街——一条历史悠久的鹅卵石小巷里，你可以
still see traditional craftsmen making lacquerware, carving jade, and playing the gu chin, an
依然能看到传统手艺人制作漆器、雕刻玉器并弹奏古琴，这是一件
ancient Chinese stringed instrument.
中国古代的弦乐器。
The old homes are not torn down.
老房子没有被拆除。
They are preserved.
它们被保留了起来。
People still live in these historic alleys, hanging their laundry, cooking outside, and chatting
人们依然生活在这些历史悠久的小巷里，晾晒衣物、在屋外做饭，并聊着天
with neighbors.
与邻居们。
The city has managed to find a beautiful harmony between the past and the present.
这座城市成功地在过去与现在之间找到了一种美好的和谐。
That is so heartening to hear.
听到这个真是太令人鼓舞了。
It is like a living museum, where the culture is not just displayed behind glass, but is actually
它就像一座活生生的博物馆，那里的文化不仅仅是在玻璃后面展示，而是真正地
lived every day by the local people.
被当地人民每天切身生活着。
If a listener wants to visit Yangjou today, what is one hidden gem or off -the -beaten -path experience
如果一位听众今天想去扬州游览，有哪些小众宝藏或避开人流的体验
you would highly recommend?
你会高度推荐呢？
If you want to experience the true soul of Yangjou, step away from the major tourist spots for an afternoon.
如果你想体验扬州真正的灵魂，不妨抽出一个下午的时间远离主要的游客景点。
Get lost in the small, narrow residential alleys, or hutongs, in the old town.
在老城小巧而狭窄的住宅小巷或胡同里迷失自我吧。
Walk quietly.
安静地步行。
Listen to the pleasant sounds of Huaiju opera drifting out of open windows.
倾听从开着的窗户里飘出的悦耳淮剧声。
Watch elderly residents play mahjong on wooden tables in the street.
看着年长的居民在街边的木桌上打麻将。
And stop at a small, family -run noodle shop for a bowl of Yangjou fried rice, or Yongchun noodles.
并在一家小巧的家庭经营的面馆停下脚步，吃一碗扬州炒饭或阳春面。
It is in these quiet, unpolished moments that you truly feel the warmth and history of this
正是在这些安静而未经雕琢的时光里，你才能真正感受到这座
beautiful city.
美丽的城市的温暖与历史。
That sounds absolutely magical, Sophia.
那听起来绝对太神奇了，索菲娅。
Thank you so much for sharing your passion, your stories, and your deep knowledge of Yangjou with us today.
非常感谢你今天与我们分享你对扬州的热情、故事以及深厚的知识。
You have truly brought this poetic city to life.
你真正让这座诗意的城市活灵活现地展现了出来。
Thank you, William.
感谢你，威廉。
It was a pleasure.
这是我的荣幸。
I hope all our listeners get the chance to visit Yangjou one day, and experience its slow charm for themselves.
我希望我们所有的听众有一天都能有机会去扬州看看，亲自体验它慢节奏的魅力。
And to all our listeners, we have a fun question for you today based on our conversation.
对于我们所有的听众，今天根据我们的对话，我们有一个有趣的问题想问大家。
If you could spend a perfect day in Yangjou, which part of the local lifestyle would you look
如果你可以在扬州度过完美的一天，当地生活方式的哪一部分会让你
forward to the most?
最为期待呢？
Would you prefer the morning tea experience of Pi Bao Shui with hot tea and crab roe dumplings?
你是更喜欢“皮包水”的早茶体验，品着热茶，吃着蟹黄汤包？
Or would you prefer the relaxing evening bathhouse routine of Shui Bao Pi?
还是更喜欢“水包皮”晚间澡堂那种令人放松的例行习惯？
Please share your thoughts and write down your answers in the comment section below.
请在下方的评论区分享你的想法并写下你的答案。
Or check out what other listeners are saying.
或者看看其他听众是怎么说的。
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider joining our Talkcast membership, subscribing to our
如果你喜欢本集内容，请考虑加入我们的 Talkcast 会员并关注我们的
channel, and sharing this podcast with your friends who love travel and culture.
频道，并将这档播客分享给您身边热爱旅行和文化的朋友。
Your support keeps us going.
您的支持是我们持续前行的动力。
Also, a quick reminder that the full English transcript and audio of this episode are regularly
另外温馨提醒，本集完整的英文逐字稿和音频会定期
published on our website at www .talkcast .top.
发布在我们的官方网站 www.talkcast.top 上。
Please head over there to review the vocabulary and practice your listening skills.
请前往网站复习词汇并练习您的听力技巧。
Finally, please leave a comment telling us which historic city or cultural theme you would like us
最后，请留言告诉我们您希望我们去哪座历史名城或什么文化主题
to explore next.
去探索。
I will choose our next destination based on your wonderful suggestions.
我将根据大家的宝贵建议来选择我们的下一个目的地。
Thank you so much for listening to Talkcast Discovery, off the map, into the world.
非常感谢收听 Talkcast 探索，走出地图，走入世界。
Until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, and keep traveling. Goodbye.
下次再见，保持探索，保持学习，保持前行。再见。
Thank you.
谢谢您。
Thank you.
感谢您。
